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RRM3 - latest axis changes ruined older rig versions

so, basically as the title suggests matter is fairly simple to explain - I do understand the need to align RRM to the perhaps better way of handling and reading world orientations but at the same time i've used RRM3 from the first day almost and I've build so many rigs with the previous logic - all those rigs and animations are sadly from my perspective not salvageable at all...so, I guess what i'm trying to suggest here is to perhaps have some way of transferring data from the old logic to the new without breaking anything. because this new version kinda came out of nowhere and you know..I was not even using the new script versions for a very long time, more then a year and a half basically i was '' stuck '' with the previous ( old logic ) version since I had entire project on that version and it seemed tricky to jump to the new one - and I was right, new version does indeed destroy entire proxy rig and it cannot be modified to work in the new logic at all. just my two cents.. i guess thx

4 comments

Comments (4)

dustin

Mar 18

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The changes you are describing, is this the proxies or rig controls?

RRM3 controls have had the same axes since its inception. There are some Maya space controls that were later added, as shown here:

https://www.rapidrig.com/post/rapid-rig-modular-3-new-axes-controls

but these did not remove any of the previous functionality. They are additive to the existing controls and do not need to be used.

You mention proxy rigs, those also have not had any major intentional changes that change axes if that is what you are referring to.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what old logic and new version you are referring to? There is an option to "Update Proxy Rig to Latest Version". That might help in your situation.

Can you explain how the new version is destroying your proxies? I haven't run into this before, so I would like to know what exactly is going on.

Dustin

yndus

Mar 18

Replying to

all rght, so I've used 2024_05_22 for about a year and this version worked with '' old logic ''- what I mean by that is that there was no maya space controller and rig selector worked properly with this older version, mirroring motion from side to side was indeed performed on X axis and was correctly working for all controls and not just for that '' maya space one '' there was no controller flipping in larger FK chains ( like tails, hair atc ) and this meant that using tools like BroTools or any other for dynamics was pretty much predictable and well..correct, you'd get what you need from it. Now, few days back i've installed this new version and tried to '' update my old rig to it - but this is just simply not doable at all since the tool just gives me a pop up message and says - no-can't-do - for some reason this '' old version '' is not '' part of the RRM rig '' or something like that, i don't have it in front of me atm Second issue - in the same session when i tried to '' update '' my rig from old to new - I was confused by that message and so i went to check my proxy rig and rig has been entirely destroyed, collapsed into the grid with some proxy controller scattered around the place and none on the correct positions at least - so, y, fully busted Third - rig selector - it's just unusable since I cannot '' update '' the rig to the newest version without breaking it and without any error which of course results in selector not being able to perform even the simplest task of motion mirror from side to side - it's just not recognizing the rig ( at least it seems like that to me ) Then I went and created a simple biped rig with the newest version and I added some hanging tails or chains from different parts of his body and I made a simple anim test to see if these chains will properly behave with the BroTools or with RigidBody tools -. they absolutely do not, chain has lets say 8 joints in it and when I sim some overlap motion with the tools I'd regularly get middle joints in the chain to flip and ruin the entire motion of that chain since I simply cannot do anything else but completely remove all the motion from them..and so on.. Fourth issue - When i tried to use to this new rig on new version of the tool and I tried to mirror motion from left to right on the root controller ( Hips basically ) mirror - it would mirror my motion from front to back and vice versa because these controllers clearly do not have the same axis as before - which is fine, but why not just add a drop down with axis selection on the rig selector so that we can at least manually input which axis we'd like to mirror / use So,I'm not saying that I don't think these new implemented changes to the rig were bad -. just that I have no way of reliably updating my older rigs to the new system and then also reliably using that new updated version with the selector in a predictable way as before without any breaking.

sry for the longer post

thanks

Edited

dustin

Mar 19

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Replying to

Thanks for the detailed reply. That's really helpful to get context.

Unfortunately I have not been able to reproduce most of what you have described.

I did a test build of a rig from the 2024_05_22 release and another rig from the 2024_09_20 release. The control orientations are identical between both versions where Z is the twist axis across the majority of controls, as it has always been in RRM3. The "world" and "object" controls for the IK arms and legs has the same behaviour between both rigs as well.

I did notice that the old proxies came in weird when first opening the file. I applied a slight scale change on the "RRM_MAIN" of the 2024_05_22 proxies, and that change jarred the proxies to go back to their normal location. Not sure why that is happening, but undoing the scale change kept the proxies in the correct locations.

I also updated the proxies from the 2024_05_22 setup using the UI from 2024_09_20. No issues there. Then rebuilt a 2024_05_22 rig using the updated proxies which hit a snag on the "Keep Control Shapes", but after disabling that option, the rig rebuilt correctly.

This was testing a biped build, so maybe there is more going on with other modules or settings that I didn't run into.

Would you be able to send me one of your old rigs with proxies so I can take a look at it? I do not need any geometry. Just the rig. Then I can see exactly what you are describing.

Dustin

yndus

Mar 19

Replying to

Yea, sure, I can send you my rig / rigs and I'll record some videos for you with he selector mirroring and chain flipping issues. I've just now figured out another problem - this happened when I uninstalled my older tool version and updated to the new one and then i reverted back to the older one so that i can continue to work on my animations. well, basically - my proxies got completely destroyed in this process of back?n?fourth and they now look like this while i have again my older tool version installed. As you can see only rig has already been previously made so it looks correct but it's proxies are destroyed. I'll send my rigs and videos to your email soon